Underneath my yellow skin

Tag Archives: internalized misogyny

A weight off my mind

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In yesterday’s post, I wrote about two letters at Ask A Manager that were about internalized misogyny (more or less). I was midway through dissecting the second, so let’s continue with that.

The LW was saying that she didn’t regret the decision she made not to be close to her coworkers/reports, but then whining about how they shut her out (such as bringing back souvenirs for everyone but her). Which, normally, would be a big no-no, but in this case, it’s probably partly because she was the boss.

She literally used the trope of “I’m not here to make friends”, which is normally a big red flag. Not that people need to be friends at work, but the need to say it speaks negatively about the person. It’s like when people say, “I’m just being honest” before being unbelievably mean. No one says, “I’m going to be brutally honest. You are the fucking best singer I’ve ever heard.” In this case, ‘I’m not here to make friends’ means, “I do not care about you as a person.” Which, fine. I’m an introvert and I rather not do small talk with people. If I had to work in an office, I would find it agony to talk about the weather and kids and whatnot. Mostly because I love cold and not hot, and I don’t have nor want children. But, if I were in an office, I could do the small talk with competency and would not be willing to expend capital to get away with not doing it.

In addition, as Alison pointed out, there is a difference between being friendly and being friends. The letter writer (LW) seems to be confused on that matter. You can be warm with your colleagues without being friends. You don’t have to do happy hour with them or go to their weddings. I found that strange as well. She talked about not being invited to those, but she earlier said she didn’t want to be friends!

Someone in the comments asked how her social circle was outside of work, which I thought was an astute question. The LW said she was lonely despite her strictures not to make friends at work. Did she mean that in general? Or at work? Either way, she could beef up her social circle outside work to help her feel less lonely.

Here’s the thing, though. The part about her saying that she did not get along with the other women (some people questioned why she specifically mentioned women. My guess is that she worked mostly with women) because of different life stages was what really caught my attention.


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Internalized misogyny is a hell of a drug

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Today, there are 2 letters at Ask A Manager that relate to gender-specific assumptions/statements. The first is just a hot mess of internalized misogyny and doesn’t really need much dissection (though she got a ton of it from the commentariat–and I will probably add to it myself. Alison had an excellent and thorough response to the question), but the other was more interesting in part because of the brevity of what she said about the other women in her office. In addition, my immediate response was different than my follow-up opinion once I actually thought about it–but only marginally and didn’t completely nullify my original reaction.

In the first letter, the letter writer (LW), a woman, talks about her bias against women who went to all-women colleges. She thinks they are too precious, special snowflakes who need to be coddled (she actually trots out that tired old trope), that they can’t deal with reality and men, and that the colleges get too much money/endowments (yet, does not mention the Ivies here). The last is truly bizarre to me because she says that money can be used to uplift so many more women if used elsewhere. Oh, and she mentions that a men’s only college would be banned (uh, no. There are men-only colleges in the US. Not many, but they do exist. A commenter pointed out that the LW might be confusing the order for The Citadel and VMI to accept not just white men with a country-wide ban on men-only colleges. The former is because they are state institutions. Private colleges have no such restrictions.

It was breathtaking to read this letter and the ‘cool girls’ vibe to it. When I was in college, I had a ton of guy friends. My boyfriend at the time uncharitably said it was because they all wanted to fuck me (which I don’t think is true). I had female friends who complained that all the guys liked me and not them. I retorted it was because I treated them like they were human beings–which they were. I was more interested in sports than fashion at the time (no longer true. I am equally interested in both now–which means not at all), and I found it easier to talk to guys than women.

If I were to be honest, I felt smug about it. I wasn’t like those other girls, being silly and vapid. I was a serious woman–one who could talk about serious issues like football. But, also, one who could joke about sex because I was not a prude.

The cruel reality was, though, that I was there on sufferance. I was accepted as long as I agreed that those other women were silly and not worthy of attention–except as fuckable objects, of course. If I ever disagreed, I would be relegated to the ‘no fun’ zone, which is equivalent to the ‘vapid and silly’ bin. I had to tacitly agree that men were better than women in order to remain one of the gang. I did not realize any of this at the time, but it was clear to me in retrospect.

It’s similar to trying to be the good minority or the respectable queer person. It’s all based on societal norms that we would do well to question. We are not going to get rid of them overnight, obviously, but that doesn’t mean we should just go with the status quo.


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WWDTAOL: Women upholding the patriarchy

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Welcome back to WWDTAOL, my new series on What We Don’t Talk About Out Loud. This is my series in which I can explore all the things that don’t get said in polite society and how we would be lost without the unwritten standards our society holds up. In this post, I’ll be springing off the last post and my example of it being vastly women who asked me about my reproductive choices. When we talk about the patriarchy and how the man keeps us down, well, there’s an unspoken addendum that there will always be women who are desperate to hold up the patriarchy as well.

Before I get too deep into the weeds, I want to mention that I won’t be talking about nonbinary and/or genderfluid folks because the recognition that they exist is fairly new and I don’t know how they fit into the patriarchy. My instinct would be to say they don’t, but I know people. I am sure there are some NB/genderfluid people who also hold up the patriarchy in some way or other. Anyway, I’m limiting myself to men and women for the purpose of this post on gender determinism and sexism.

In reading my advice columns, I run across certain responses from women towards other women that are sexist in nature and depressingly common. One. The whole children thing I mentioned above. Almost everyone who questioned me when I was in my twenties was a woman, which surprised me at the time. Another big area is looks. Women are mean to other women about how they dress, how much makeup they do/don’t wear, how much they weigh, etc.

Again, I’d like to stress that I know guys do this as well. The point of this post is to note how many women buy into those same toxic beliefs. With the kids thing, I had hoped it was a relic of an older time (nineties/aughts). Sadly, women who are currently in their twenties report that they still get the same pressure. Doing a quick Google, I see that there 15.4% of women age 45 to 50 (my age) do not have children. Honestly, that’s higher than I thought because of how constant the child beat is smashed into my face in popular culture.

One of the reason I find this issue interesting is because I’ve felt very much not like a women all my life. I’ve never been interested in traditionally girly things. Here’s a long list of things that I eschew. Cooking, sewing, makeup, fashion, shopping, weddings, and children. I don’t like rom-coms, romantic movies, or basically romance in general. I did play with dolls, but mostly to make them have sex with each other. I much preferred stuffed animals. I hate pink and other pastels, and black is my favorite color.


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