I honestly don’t understand many societal norms. People (read, my mother mostly) think I’m a contrarian, but I’m not. Or rather, that isn’t my intent. It’s just that I truly don’t understand the mindset of society much of the time.
I was reading an old Ask A Manager post (from about ten years ago, I think) about whether a woman had to shave her legs for a job interview 9or for a job in general). There was a sizeable number of people who insisted that it was ‘gross’ if she didn’t. That body hair, and in particular women’s body hair, was gross/unprofessional/unacceptable in the office.
It reminded me of a much more recent post (meaning after my medical crisis or maybe right before it, but definitely during/post COVID) in which there was an argument about bras in the workplace. Again, some people were more than adamant that a woman HAD to wear a bra in the office because it was gross otherwise. I don’t remmeber if the word ‘gross’ was used in this case, but there was many an ‘unprofessional’ being thrown around.
I made a comment that if I were covered up and nips weren’t showing, why did it matter? I said I would absolutely walk over this (the Letter Writer had mentioned that in her office, they were–OK. I just looked it up. It was in 2023, and the vast majority were women who were virulent in their support of bras. Or rather, virulent in their disdain for women* who decided not to wear them.
There were women who said it was a privileged position to choose to quit over it or make it your hill to die on, but that’s the whole point of having privilege/hills to die on. As to the first, part of checking your privilege should be followed by doing things that people who aren’t in your privileged position can’t do in order to make life better for everyone. Otherwise, what’s the point? As to the latter, you don’t get to decide what is a a hill to die on for someone else.
There were several people who were adamant that it was professional and that you should follow the dress code of your office (though it wasn’t in the dress code of the LW). Someone asked quite reasonably if the dress code was that you could not wear a bra in the office, would they ‘suck it up’ (which someone mentioned) and rip off their bra?
I wasn’t surprised that most people were pro-bra; I was surprised how vicious they got in going for the status quo, though. As more than one person pointed out, things didn’t change without people agitating for that change.
The number of women who said no one wanted to see the jiggling and/or they wouldn’t hire a woman that didn’t wear a bra, sadly, was not surprising. Women often are the ones to hold up the patriarchy, which is one of the greatest tricks of man. If they can get women to do it for them, then they can spend less time on it.
(Resisting to go on a rant about the patriarchy and dieting, which is not the point of this post.)
I can’t understand getting all worked up over something so meaningless. Tellingly, one person did the slippery slope argument and said that what next, no pants? It’s always wild to me when people do the slippery slope argument and then bust out something ridiculous. My mother did it when I told her I was bi–she said, “What next, animals?”
Side note: Why is it always animals?
When people want to disparage same-sex atraction? It’s really worrying, to be honest, that they see being attracted to someone of the same gender as equal to being attracted to animals.
Anyway.
I don’t understand why people get so riled up about things like wearing a bra and shaving legs. I get it on an intellectual level, but not on an emotional one. I mean, as I mentioned, I know why people get angry because patriarchy demands it. And, they get angry at people who don’t give into it because it makes them feel like a fool on some level. Or that they might be viewed as a fool for sticking to the status quo.
Otherwise, why the anger? I can understand having an opinion on it, even quite a passionate one. But the anger is so OTT. And the disgust at boobs gone wild. Most of the people who mentioned going braless added that they made sure that everything was covered up. Same here. If I’m going somewhere in public, then there’s nothing poking out. If I’m just at home, who cares?
I will never understand why people get so upset about stuff like that. Anything that doesn’t affect you means you should MYOB. I understand warning people about the political cost someone might have to take/spend for making decisions like this, but that is up to that person. Also, it’s funny to me that the people who say this is not the hill to die on are the same people who will die on some hills such as not miccrowaving fish.
And this website is a left-leaning one. Or at least it used to be. It seems to be creeping more and more to the center. Oh, and, yes, it’s anti-sexist, but only in very obvious and basic ways. I don’t mean the blog owner. She’s quite radical at heart (but pragmatic in advice), and she’s gotten even more radical in her advice over the years. When asked about it, she said it’s beacuse when she first started the blog, she assumed that the American workers system worked for most people because it did (mostly) for her. Over time, she realized it wasn’t true and became more radicalized.
To be clear, she’s always been radical in her personal and political life. It’s just in her work life that she was more conservative in her approach to getting shit done.
More later.
*That was what was under discussion in this post. I even mentioned that the previous post about diversity in the workplace had a positive response, followed by the overwhelming negative response on the bra one really made me sad. I don’t care if people want to wear bras themselves, but why the absolute–not hatred, but anger/disgust towards AFAB people/women who choose not to?**
**I know why. It’s because patriarchy. Also, when you adhere to the patriarchy, someone who doesn’t is thretening. It’s why I had women get angry when I said I didn’t want children. They saw it as an insult to them having children.